Visco Fuse Machine

[RSDZ]

Julicher showed me some foto's of a visco machine which looked a lot like my computer drawings and I saw how the drive was done. And it looked perfect, I'd have to adjust my own drawings a bit but it should work, but I still need an engine but my dad gave me an idea:
You have these sets with kitchen things (blenders and stuff) which you can click to 1 thing with an electromotor in it, and that solved 2 problems, I wouldn't need more electromotors, and I could get the electromotor by just buying a cheap kitchen thing set, they're strong and you can put them on the powernetwork.

[Blaf]

Hello RSDZ

I wouldn't know exactly what the kitchen blender looks like inside and what kind of a motor it uses but generally, all those small electric appliances use small AC motors of rather high RPM. The final rotation of the tool is regulated by simple cog-wheel gearing made of plastic like in mixers. Other ones like coffee grinders and juice makers take advantage of a high RPM and tool is attached directly to the motor shaft.
If you ask me, I would opt for DC motor and regulated power supply so that you can play with speed at will.
But then, it's only my humble opinion...

Blaf

p.s. Do not stop on drawings only...

[RSDZ]

mean this things which you click together, the good thing about this is that I don't need to open it.
I
This is an expensive 1 but I bet there will also be cheaper ones.

[RSDZ]

Of course it's alright, I can send you the 3d drawings if you want, but I'll PM you.

[Julicher]

You can also do it by hand. That your're much more in controll. When electric motor is spinning it all around and something goes wrong, you're allways too late to make it right. It doesn't take much effort to spin that wheel a few times by hand.

[RSDZ]

It would still be a machine (before the steamengines there were factories too), but offcourse it's more fun when you don't have to do anything except waiting, but it could be a "pre-solution" if that word excists.

[RSDZ]

Nice pictures, I'll probably start next weekend, or maybe earlier because I have no homework yet.

[Blaf]

Hello SoulPredator

This is nice work in 3d, indeed. The whole construction looks nice, sturdy and ready to roll. You should just add kind of guide ring just below lower plate where finished fuse exits the die so it doesn't zig-zag within die before being rolled on collecting drum. Also, check the ratio between cog-wheel diameters and those of plastic pulleys on the main shaft and plates as collecting drum should spin at significantly lower RPM (say 1:5) then spinning plates. Maybe cog-wheels are too strong for this application and some kind of friction drive would be more convenient, but that's only my opinion.
Ah, another trifle - I've read about some other guy experimenting with tracer yarn (I haven't tried it myself) and he says it doesn't help much. Maybe, if we could make it spin inside the funnel...don't know. But I know that pure meal clogs very easily no matter what you do. Shaking helps, that's for sure.

I'm just thinking loud...

Blaf

[RSDZ]

Small update:
the planks are almost ready, they're sawn in a "buildingshop" (bouwmarkt op z'n engels) with a huge saw so that was done very quickly, but I still need to make the 2 round planks round, and I need to make holes for the little wooden sticks (with some glue on them) which keep the planks and beams together, the holes for the ball bearings and the funnel (is that the right word for "trechter"?) are allready made.

[RSDZ]

That makes a HUGE fibration. Or ripping apart a old xbox controller, they have 2, 1 big one small for vibration. Then instead of sticking the funnel into the wood, suspend it in rubber, and stick a vibrating device on it. That would probly help.

Do you mean like in this picture?:


I didn't really understand that picture, that rubber thing, but it's just like a small bendable tube if I got it right?

[Julicher]

If you make the upper treaths go together slowly when they are pulled down the machine, it will press the BP between it and it wil stick. If the treaths are lined togetter too fast it won't get sticky on the BP.

like this:


not like this:

[Blaf]

Hello SoulPredator (and others too...)

Well, basically yes. I do shake funnel while machine runs, checking the upper powder die all the time. When the die cavity comes half empty I do increase shaking until it's full. I was thinking about automatic ex-center shaking device too but I think it will also need constant controll of powder flow. So, for me, nothing works as precisely as human hand...I mean so far. Fine granulation of the meal powder helped a lot but could not completely solve the flow control problem.

Blaf

[RSDZ]

Maybe I have an idea, but it's a bit more work.
You have these lego sticks which are like this -|-, if you spin a stick with that form in the funnel, it won't clog I think, but assmebling it is more work than the little motor.

[Julicher]

Multibreaker @ chemixtry had 12 threads on one turn and that made 1,5 cm of fuse. The threads where very close to each other but it looked and burned very well. But if 8 cm works allright, why would you change it?

[Blaf]

Hello SoulPredator

Here are a few tips that could help to determine size of your collecting drum. Circumference of my collecting drum is little less than 10cm and rotates once in 2,5-3 seconds so we can calculate out that in my case fuse is being produced at 4cm per second. My two plates holding yarns rotate at variable speed as I can increase or decrease voltage supply at my preference but generally, they make 4-5 turns in one second. Hope this helps.
Something should be pointed out here; I noticed something interesting but it could be just asking too much from this amateur designs. Namely, as the fuse comes out from first (powder) die, it has certain thickness. Now it enters the second die where additional yarns are being wound around it and it inevitably comes out thicker than before. Now look at the lower plate – we can see only 8 yarns there and sometimes outer layer of yarns do not cover inner ones completely as both plates rotate at the same speed. You can see this happening on my latest green fuse sample. Remedy to this could be increasing rotation of lower plate, ie. using larger plastic pulley on main shaft or smaller one on lower plate itself. Or perhaps increasing number of yarns to make outer layer of fuse....don't know yet, but this is a problem one could face when turning the Machine into production.

Blaf

[Blaf]

Well????? Does it work or what?

Blaf

[Blaf]

Ah, it fulfills me somehow. If you use those cotton yarns be sure to size the hole in second die accordingly. I'm saying this because if those are ment to be candle wicks, they should be pretty thick for the purpose...
Just keep the project going!

Blaf

[RSDZ]

Ohw, too bad it doesn't work...
But don't you think there's a solution somewhere on the internet?

[Julicher]

I was thinking about the second plate the fuse goes through. It looks that it should be placed upside down to let the 8 wires through the hole in the plate. Otherwise the hole in the plate can't centralize the 8 wires to the middle and turn it around the fuse. I don't know if this is the problem at your machine, but that's one of the problems I could imagine.

[Blaf]

Hello SoulPredator

As far as I can conclude from your report, something is definitely wrong with your machine. Powder spills and loose strings suggest one of the following:

Check the hole on the powder die (first rotating plate), it should be properly dimensioned so that all first 12 yarns go through it freely when being stretched. Here, a piece of straight wire or fishing line of 1mm (It's expected diameter of the powder core) thicknes comes handy - just pull it through the die along with those 12 yarns and it should still go smoothly or with just a little friction.

Another problem (and cause of deep grief) to be considered is adjusting the rotation speed of two plates in relation to rotation of the collecting drum. I can't give you any advice in this regard as this is simple matter of trial and error. But generally, too much speed on the plates side and yarns are wound at steep angle, which makes fuse too thick and it gets stuck inside powder die hole. Remedy: Decrease rotation of plates or increase rotation of the collecting drum but you've already concluded this.

Just to be sure – powder die should be funnelled and small recesses cut for each yarn all around the rim so that threading is made symmetrically. Your machine uses pulleys below each rotating plates, right? Yarns are collected under first one and horizontaly directed to pulley under second rotating plate where it goes straight up through the second die. Those pulleys have to be nicely alligned with holes in each die.

Too much talking, heh. Just don't give up, OK?

Blaf

[Blaf]

I was thinking about the second plate the fuse goes through. It looks that it should be placed upside down to let the 8 wires through the hole in the plate. Otherwise the hole in the plate can't centralize the 8 wires to the middle and turn it around the fuse. I don't know if this is the problem at your machine, but that's one of the problems I could imagine.

Hello Julicher

Sorry, I disregarded this comment of yours somehow so here I am to clear this point up:
You're right, first winding of fuse goes through second plate but this time vertically up. This is little confusing - how the hell additional yarns are counterwound around first layer when spools are still standing upwards? Secret is in little detail (which can't be seen on photos) of the second die design. This one doesn't have funnelled hole on top, ok it's holed through but yarns do not enter it due to small recesses like in first die. This one has little holes drilled through its body, somewhere below its rim so that additional yarns are pushed through to meet at the same point inside the die and now, they all go straight up.

Hope it's clear now.

Blaf

[Julicher]

Oh, it's like that. Now I understand why that part should work. It's still a pitty that some other things didn't work. I did also started to build one, but since the vacation is over I don't work on it much. It's one with the plates obove each other. I made the frame the 2 plates and their connections to the frame, and I fixed the pipe to let it turn. I still need to build the supply for the mealpowder and I need to build the wheel that pulls the wires through the holes.

[Blaf]

Well, I think we could adopt "In line Fuse Machine" or "Tower Fuse Machine" as official name of the design. I'm glad to see so many of you building your machines or at least considering to start building one. I'm eager to see how your variations are going to look and work so get down on it guys!
And if any of you needs additional images of any detail of my Machine, do not hesitate to ask for and I'll post it.

Blaf

[Blaf]

Hello all!

I've just made a new and larger upper die. The white stuff I made it from is 25mm dia PVE bar faced and turned on my micro-lathe machine. It looks aesthetically much better than wooden one I used before. Besides, visual control of flow of the powder is much easier now as I can see better what's going on.


Lower one is also new. There's no real need to change it but I made it for bare visual harmony sake.


Unnecessary changes, heh? Anyhow, I enjoyed working on it...

Blaf

[mr.stijntje]

Hehe and again it looks perfect.
I really enjoy reading about your visco-machine as it's better every time you post here!

Anyhow, I enjoyed working on it...

And that's what's most important.

Could you upload a new pic of the entire machine? That would be great!