Visco Fuse Machine Options

[Blaf]

Hi guys!

You might remeber your old member which once upon a time started all this mess....well, whatever the case is, I'm here to check how things're going. How well or bad your machines work? Any new designs on horizon? This corner of the forum has been forgotten for some time which fills my heart with unrest somehow. As for me, one of these days I'll start my machine again (I still have plenty of fuse left from last production) to make some fuse with yarns soaked in KNO3...we'll see how it burns this time...

Regards to all!

Blaf

[PyroGeorge]

Hi blaf
can you post some photos of your machine?

[Blaf]

Hello PyroGeorge

Just go back to the second page of this topic and you'll see how it looks.

Blaf

[PyroGeorge]

Nice machine!

It makes good visco?
Also it is profit to make a visco machine? what is your opinion?

This post has been edited by PyroGeorge: Dec 31 2008, 17:34

[Blaf]

You bet it makes a nice fuse! You can see it within the same topic. You asked if it's profitable to make your own machine...well, to be honest, I'm not a big consumer of fuse as I do things in small scale and quantity. And I made my own machine just to see if I could do it, it was a techical challenge of a kind and I loved making it and seeing it working well. Hope this makes you happy for some time. If you have any specific questions then send me a Personal Mesage, OK?

Blaf

[leosedf]

Pyrogeorge and me are working to make visco machines, however my thoughts are on a timefuse machine.
I am thinking to create a thick visco like machine and then coat with tar or plasti dip (www.plastidip.com) liquid plastic to prevent side spit. Usually timefuse has 2 or 4 treads going in the BP core and one layer of 12 or more threads outside with the external coatings (tar and paper).
Blaf's images and constructions were an inspiration for many people around anyway.

As for the cost, since we don't have it at all then it sure worths it.

[Tyneman]

That sure sounds like a great idea.
If you have any drawings or plans on that timefuse machine Id really love to see them.
I don't have the skills to build one myself. But Im realy interested in how all that should work.
Gr33tZ

[leosedf]

Right now i am only into thinking of it. But i believe that a visco machine can be modified (on the center where the threads are going, with a larger hole) to produce some fuse ideal to be coated with a fire retardant.

[only connect]

hi guys, I'm new in this forum, compliments! it's very nice, it's a pity that I don't speak Dutch.I've read erniz' tutorial...I would need the password to see it, could you give it to me?
thx!!

[Tyneman]

Let me quote:

You will need a password to unRAR the file. You can get that password by sending a PM to Erniz.

'nuff said.

[only connect]

Tnx I've already sent a PM to Erniz but I've no answer. That's the reason why I asked this in the discussion to have a possible answer from s/o who already knew it.
tnx bye

This post has been edited by only connect: Jul 3 2009, 11:04

[PyroGeorge]

only connect do you made visco machine?

[Erniz]

Good day folks,
I jus tried to edit my recent mesage but it said "you dont have the right..." neverless I was logged in.
So I will corect my mistake with uploading pictures here:

Edit:
Pictures removed in request of poster. People seem to be reposting them on other boards and stating them to be their own work. T.

Edit part two:
5 tutorials for making a Visco-fuse machine.
http://rapidshare.com/files/88129149/tutai.exe.html

You will need a password to unRAR the file. You can get that password by sending a PM to Erniz.
Gr33tZ. T.

guys the password is www.sprogmenys.com
take care!

[Weirdo]

Really cool tutorial, I stick with buying my fuse. But i really want to make one for fun once. Do you have a movie of the burning homemade fuse?

This post has been edited by Weirdo: Oct 24 2009, 21:53

[only connect]

Yes PyroGeorge it is very easy to built!!

[Pyro09]

This machine is so amazing! I'm going to built one too.. but does anybody know at wich rotation speed the two plates are running? It's quite important to me to know since I've got a motor with 2000RPM - surely I have to lower the rev, but how many RPMs are best?

Kind regards,

Pyro09

[Erniz]

This machine is so amazing! I'm going to built one too.. but does anybody know at wich rotation speed the two plates are running? It's quite important to me to know since I've got a motor with 2000RPM - surely I have to lower the rev, but how many RPMs are best?

Kind regards,

Pyro09

well, best rotation speed is 130 RPM (a bit less or more , not a big deal). The disk witch one makes outer layer has to rotate at the speed not more 150rpm, the disk that makes inner layer has to rotate two times slower (it means 75RPM). I have built 3 visko machines. It allways worked.

E.

[PyroGeorge]

3 visco machines?

very nice!can you share some photos of your machines?
thanks

[Dunecat]

If you make the upper treaths go together slowly when they are pulled down the machine, it will press the BP between it and it wil stick. If the treaths are lined togetter too fast it won't get sticky on the BP.
like this:
[attachment=151:attachment]

not like this:
[attachment=152:attachment]

Oh, well before I get to my stuff, I tried your first design for my fuse machine powder die. The black powder compressed itself and formed a plug that caused the whole machine to screw up really badly. I can see where you are coming with this, but my steeply tapered inlet hole just caused problems. I only read your comment after I did it with my die, so I know what you're thinking. I just used a standard wood countersink(kinda like a conical drillbit) to make a suitable taper to allow the fuse and blackpowder to get pulled down nicely. So far, it's worked absolutely great. The action of the 12 inner layer threads being drawn through works to draw down the loose blackpowder.


Ok, so I've been working on my fuse machine, and it has been such a hassle. Being as I'm quite young, I don't have readily available access to a car to get to the places I need to go to acquire materials(my parents are always too busy), I have limited funds, and because my engineering teacher hates anything that isn't schoolwork(!!) I don't really have access to a machineshop. All these factors make it a real bitch to get anywhere, or get anything, because all the places I go to are 30-60min bike rides one way...
But despite this, I have still managed to fashion a fuse machine of sorts. I was given the wrong information by a youtube user that 5-7rpm is acceptable with a 6cm diameter collecting roll. This equates to about 100cm of fuse being pulled through the machine(at 5rpm), as I have a main axle that powers my turntables and also turns a 20:1 reduction wormdrive.
I have my turntables spinning at twice what I turn the main axle at, and my wormdrive reduces the speed to 5% and gives a ton of torque. But back to the 5-7rpm... 7rpm is an acceptable speed for the fuse to be wound at. However, anything below that and the fuse will be overtwisted, and will kink up in the dies, causing it to tear and problems to happen.

So 5rpm on a 6cm diam collecting roll equates to 100cm of fuse being pulled through per minute if the main axle runs at 100rpm. This is TOO SLOW. The minimum length that can be pulled through is 150ish cm/min.

It just hit me right now as well; RPM and winding reel diameter can be customized to whatever to give the desired winding speed.(F**K... I can't believe I didn't realize this til now). So circumference of winding spool x RPM = 150-200cm/min

What do you guys think? This is my only problem with the fuse machine, and I need 2 people to currently run it; one with the drill(because wormdrive is too slow) and one cranking the handle. Can you guys post the speeds of your turntables as well? I need to calculate the optimum speed that they will be turning at. Also, some pictures(because I am kinda stuggling and my design isn't well thought out; too large) of other fuse machines or more of the previous ones will be really appreciated. Some designs or schematics wouldn't go amiss either....

Good forum too. The Only good forum.

Cheers

This post has been edited by Dunecat: May 14 2010, 05:54

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[Dunecat]

Oh yeah, and I'll give a few specs about my machine. I have since altered the diameter of the winding spindle so it is now 10.5cm and it winds the fuse much better. However, I didn't remember that te 2nd turnable has to spin at twice teh speed of the second one, and my 2nd layer of threads has gaps in it. So with both my turntables going 200rpm, and my 20:1 wormdrive and 10.2cm spindle pulling fuse through at 160cm/min, my fuse is kinda ok. It has gaps, but I just set off some flashpowder with it, and it holds together fine when it has a NC laquer on it.

But my design has some crucial flaws, as you can see; it's far too big, the axles are in the wrong places, and consequently, the spindle is not in line with the fuse as it gets drawn down. This is annoying, as the fuse beings to wind off the further side of the spindle, and instead starts winding around the wormdrive output shaft, which is far too narrow to be good. Erniz, I love your compact design and I will be copying it. Can you post some pictures of your other two fuse machines? Blaf, I wish you could've made a tutorial, because yours takes aesthetic appeal.

What did you power the whole setup with erniz? I've been using my drill and a hand driven handle, but I don't like the way it has to be secured, and my drill runs really fast, and hand driven is just shit. And you said the lower turntable spins at twice that of the 1st correct?

[Prophet]

Hi, welcome to the forum!

I'm afraid I know close to nothing about building such machines, so I won't be of any help to you.
I can say though, that it looks like you're on the right track!
Nice work so far.
I bet there are a few people here on the forum that have designs of other machines that can help you, just hang in there.
Good luck further and don't be afraid to show some of your future work.

[Dunecat]

I've since dismantled that machine in favour for a better one. I'm going to see what Items I can get refunds for, but I think I'll probably still make a loss of 40US or so. I suppose it's an expensive lesson, but I learnt a few things from it... always get a second opinion on designs, and small/compact is always better, and make sure you have good plans for what you are going to do.

And in the end, even though I have lost a bit, I've learnt a lot and that probably makes up for it...
I'm just going to copy Erniz's design, it's a lot more compact than my shelve kinda setup, and I've got most of the materials.

[Prophet]

make sure you have good plans for what you are going to do.

That's probably the most valuable thing you've learnt. It will sure save you some money in the future.
One thing I've learnt though, is that this hobby can be quite expensive. But then again, lots of hobbies are.

Keep us up to date when you're building your new machine!

[Dunecat]

Yeah, but I always find it hard to construct plans for my projects, because I have to run with what I can find. Always a bit limited when it comes to monetary funding... Always trying to save up more money for my investing fund which will be implemented later...

I bought a 80x80x0.45cm square of grey PVC sheet, and I'm thinking now where am I going to find some chloroform(trichloromethane) or whether methylene chloride would work. Or possibly superglue, but I don't want a glue that dies too quickly. And the 80x80 wasn't cheap, coming in at $80NZ/50US... the guy told me it would be about 50ish, but I couldn't say no after he'd cut it. Also got some PVC 30mm rod and polyacetate 6mm rod. I easily have enough PVC sheet to make pulleys and turntables and dies for 3-4 fuse machines lol... if only I had a market.

Will keep updates, dismantled the last fuse machine and I'm going to try and return the wormdrive and the rest of the heavy steel pulleys I was sent, because they were too heavy on the last machine and I would love to get some of that money back.

Oh and you guys got any suggestions for removing fine scratches from a ring bearing? Similiar to a skateboard bearing. I had had it epoxied into a wooden housing, so I had to get it out of that using hot water, and foolishly I used 400 grit sandpaper to remove some of the tarnish. When I took back the 1/2" bearings, they said they wouldn't take them because they'd already been "fitted"... which they really hadn't, so I'm going to have to try and polish away as much of the fine scratches as possible; do you guys think steel wool would work?

[Tyneman]

Dunecat,

You are really getting your DIY thing going building this thing. I can't wait for pics of your process.
On the scratches you have, I found this on skylighter:

Here is a solution, though, regularly touted by master-rocketeer Steve LaDuke. Polish your tooling, especially the spindle, using very fine, 600-grit sandpaper and a good metal polish. I got an excellent polish, Mothers Billet Metal Polish, at my local auto-parts store.

Whats the difference between tooling and a bearing? All just polishing metal imo.

Goodluck on your project and keep us updated.

[Murtali]

After being away for a while, i started building a new fuse machine this week. Finished the hole thing in 3 days. I will update some pictures when i installed the NC laquer drum too. Oh BTW for all you guys wondering what that distinctive smell is when you burn chinese visco fuse: it's chlorate, C, and sulfur. Dangerous i know, but it works.

UPDATE: just did a test-run, the machine works great. 6 meters of perfect fuse in less then a minute. But i still have problems with the laquer. The fuse is evenly coated, even drowned in NC. But, the finished fuse doesn't have the strength like commercial visco. It won't fall apart or something, but it not like the real thing. I think my NC solution in acetone is too thin, although there are remaining clumbs of undissolved NC on the bottom of jar. Anyone here got a clue about the glue?

This post has been edited by Murtali: Aug 3 2010, 16:22

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[Weirdo]

That looks very nice, do you have a burn test of it on video? And maby it needs to be soaked longer in the NC laquer?

[Murtali]

@ weirdo, i have been thinking the same as a possible solution. Later on, i will try to coat it 2 times, or change the laquer can so the fuse is saturated more with NC. I did a new test run with NC and some dye to give the fuse a purple color. The result was better fuse, but i am not satisfied yet. It brought up a new problem too, the colored NC seems to get i higher viscosity and that resulted in a leaking can. The fuse machine is now partly coated too... There is no movie yet, maybe later.